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http://www.dyarstraights.com/msgundam/frontier.html

Wow... Just... Wow...

I always liked Gundam and all, but the science (psudoscience?) here makes my head spin. Anyone care to take a look and see if any of it makes sense to them?

//waiting for someone to design me a fusion engine and some myomer bundles so i can mecha-nize my car.

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

Actually, about 18 months ago, I suggested a minor correction to that website. Let's see...

*Can't comment on the history section. Don't know Gundam.
*Home on Lagrange is very good, hard science.
*Can't comment on the Geometry of Shadows section. The science is correct, the Gundam stuff I dunno about.
*In Developing Sound Habitats, Cole habitats (melted, inflated asteroids) don't sound very sound. I just wouldn't trust raw asteroidal material to be steam inflated like that. The amount of impurities and strains caused by air pressure give me the willies. I don't like Bernal Spheres, either. However, the history cited in that section is pretty solid.
*It's Life GM, But Not As We Know It! Is a very solid description of O'Neill habitats. No obvious science flaws.
*Nothing wrong with A Sense of Direction that I can see.
*The Gravity Of The Situation looks correct.
*The Weather section looks correct, though that has been a stumbling point of mine in imagining large habitats.
*I don't agree with the comments that the closed-type cylinders will be necessarily less pleasant than the open style, as mentioned in the How The Other Half Lives section. But that's not much of a science flaw per se.
*Sphere Of Influence is more history, both real (Bernal Spheres) and Gundam. Nothing to comment on there, other than my dislike of Bernal spheres.
*Wheel in the Sky has solid science and math behind it.
*I have no comment on Side By Side. Not much science to it, nothing wrong with it.
*No Comment on Which Side Are You On. That's all Gundam.
*No Comment on Arriving at A Reasonable Settlement. Nothing wrong with the engineering there.
*Upon This Rock: rather anime-ish asteroid designs. The "gravity block" and high performance engines on some asteroids are better than reality would likely produce.
*Inconstant Moon seems correct, including the author's comment on the health of Lunarians.
*By Jupiter!'s science seems correct. No comment on the Gundam factors.
*Red Planet Blues is all Gundam stuff. No comment.

The science in that website is generally very hard, and sloppiest when touching on Gundam-specific features (like those asteroids), but that's a Gundam problem. Very good website. I've referenced it before when sketching out space colonies for this or that RPG.

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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

"Woo, that was bracing! They don't like it when you shoot at them. I worked that out myself." --Mal, Firefly

"Going bonkers from EI or DNI is pushing it. I mean how many Crusaders or Super Wobbies are sane to begin with...." --RockJock01

I'll read the articles later, when I need My head to explode....

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Sir Henry

A Dragon in the disguise of a rabbit, is still a Dragon...

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img]

The articles don't get that heavy into science.

The website is presented as a useful description of life in large space colonies and, whether you understand the science or not, it should provide immediately useful descriptions for game masters and RPG gamers.

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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

"Woo, that was bracing! They don't like it when you shoot at them. I worked that out myself." --Mal, Firefly

"Going bonkers from EI or DNI is pushing it. I mean how many Crusaders or Super Wobbies are sane to begin with...." --RockJock01

that it does, i found it real useful, but trying to understand the formula for how jumping straight up will hurl me five-ten feet to the anti-spin direction and how water falls diagonaly, and the fact water can go uphill... It made my head hurt.

Real useful stuff for the battletech universe, guys our "grav decks" work the same way....

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

Well, then, don't even /think/ about the fact that the earth is moving about 18 /miles/ every second in its path around the sun. And the sun is moving....

Don't worry about it, it's all relative, so as far as /we're/ concerned, water doesn't fall diagonally.

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Rick
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[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

yes, but if i drop a ball i hold over my head, it falls "straight" down to my feet, not veering three feet to the left

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

Exactly. Because we're all moving along at the same speed, you, me, the water, the ball, and therefore we only see (and are concerned with) /relative/ movement.

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Rick
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[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

Not true, everyday I see cars moving 30+ mph faster than I do.

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Je vous aurais bien aide, mais je ne vous aime pas.

Dr. J. Edgarlove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Inferno Gel

"If you're not careful, you'll get us all whacked. Ha ha! Body in a woodchipper." - Phil Ken Sebben

What is inside the silo? Can it fly? A needle in a haystack... To crack the sky!

Exactly (again), as that is the relative speed. What we don't see is that they are actually moving around the sun at roughly 66,690 mph, while you are only moving at 66,660 mph.

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Rick
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[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

I know. I was just typing to see my fingers move.

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Je vous aurais bien aide, mais je ne vous aime pas.

Dr. J. Edgarlove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Inferno Gel

"If you're not careful, you'll get us all whacked. Ha ha! Body in a woodchipper." - Phil Ken Sebben

What is inside the silo? Can it fly? A needle in a haystack... To crack the sky!

Sort of, on that o'niel cylander though, the water is pushed by centripital force to fall a number of degrees off true "down" relative to the viewer, hense the fact it falls diagonaly. On Earth the gravity is just that, hense the water falls a1 9.8m/sec/sec towards the earth. Not 15 degrees off this course.

Example. On an oniel cylinder you jump straight up, the "ground" under you spins constantly, as you decelerate, meaning you seem to be flung antispinward at a mathmaticaly sound, but astheticly odd rate.

poured fluids also arc antispinward, hense they seem to fqall "diagonaly" in the antispinward direction, forget which way antispinward is and you can make a BIG mess as the fluid misses the cup by a wide margin.

I just went into the kitchen, my DrPepper exibited none of this odd trait. DrPepper fall straight down into glass, glass fill up. And it was tasty.

I understand the physics of it (sortof) but the actualy getting my head around it... Living in an environment where things fall diagonaly of where they "should" and water flows up hill....

And the girl complains if i miss the toilet in the dark now....

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

Someone tried to explain to me that gravity is not a constant--merely a high probability. So there is a chance that water could fall "up" just randomly.

Great, i'lluse that excuse instead of heavy drinking next time she complains..

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

And by just how many degrees might that be?? Anyhow, I don't think that centripital force would cause any such thing. There is the Coriolis effect that can come into play, however. But that varies greatly from one location to another, being zero at the equator, and higher as you go north or south from there. Still, unless you're measuring in thousands (millionths?) of a degree, I don't think you'll see that. Yes, the "ground" spins constantly, but so do you. There is nothing to declerate you, unless it's air resistance, and as the air is moving at the same speed as well, it doesn't do that eitherl.

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Rick
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[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

perhaps not on a huge sphere like the earth, but on one of them little guys...

http://www.dyarstraights.com/msgundam/coriolis.html

I rember seeing a nasa documentry that SHOWED water would fall diagonaly on a space station using spin to achive gravity. Granted i was like ten, and that's ALL i remember was the water falling oddly and the guy jumping... But it still to this day freaks me out.

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

Dude, all this talk of physics, spinning, and spacecraft makes my head spin.

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[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img][img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/state-texas.gif[/img]

Ever throw a ball back and forth to someone on the opposite side of a fast-moving merry-go-round? It really takes some skill and adjustment. Old man Coriolis is to blame. And yes, in space, where gravity doesn't exist, or where gravity is produced artificially by relatively rapidly rotating space stations (grav decks) Coriolis acceleration would have a far greater effect than on Earth, which rotates at 1 revolution per day.

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Rick
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[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

Dudanilvtsv.

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Je vous aurais bien aide, mais je ne vous aime pas.

Dr. J. Edgarlove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Inferno Gel

"If you're not careful, you'll get us all whacked. Ha ha! Body in a woodchipper." - Phil Ken Sebben

What is inside the silo? Can it fly? A needle in a haystack... To crack the sky!

Gesundheit

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Comstar: The original celebrated curiously strong HPG provider.

Dudanilvtsv translates to English as "agreed". In this case, I was agreeing to the difficulty that one has when they toss a ball to another person while spinning around on a merry-go-round.

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Je vous aurais bien aide, mais je ne vous aime pas.

Dr. J. Edgarlove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Inferno Gel

"If you're not careful, you'll get us all whacked. Ha ha! Body in a woodchipper." - Phil Ken Sebben

What is inside the silo? Can it fly? A needle in a haystack... To crack the sky!

In my mind, that falls into the same area as quantum tunneling. Whenever a particle meets a solid object, because of the wave/particle nature of matter, there's a small but finite probability of the particle instantaneously appearing on the other side instead of stopping/embedding/rebounding. So in theory, there's the CHANCE that a person walking towards a wall could simultaneously tunnel his entire body through the wall to the other side; it's just that there's a 1-in-many-billion chance of each particle tunneling, and then there's the problem of them all tunneling, and reassembling correctly on the other side...

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--neko128

-----

"The cookie told me to!"
"Cookies aren't always right, you know."
"But they're so sweet!"

That sounds like something out of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy...
I got to try that once, back in HS. The AFJROTC unit that Morgan Devalis and I were in went on a field trip to Space Camp, and the merry-go-round thing was one of the astronaut training things we got to do. As I recall, myself and Fioly were trying that trick, and it didn't work terribly well...

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I'm serious about being frivolous.

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... lorida.gif[/img]

neko128 wrote: Now that you mention it, she is a physics/math person that gets crazy about freaky things like quantum mechanics.

For a big O'Neill colony (on the scale of Island 3, or ~20km in diameter), Coriolis effects are minimized at human scales. You'll probably see a few inches of deviation for objects dropped from multi-story buildings, and baseball could probably be played normally.

Of course, that's my gut estimate. If someone wants to get into those equations and correct me, they're welcome to try.

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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

"Woo, that was bracing! They don't like it when you shoot at them. I worked that out myself." --Mal, Firefly

"Going bonkers from EI or DNI is pushing it. I mean how many Crusaders or Super Wobbies are sane to begin with...." --RockJock01

I do think /that/ was wrong. Gravity is not a constant, but it has limits. In particular, there is nothing to indicate it could ever be negative, causing you to fall "up". Just like people's weights are not constant. But they're never negative.

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Rick
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[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

then how do you explain the pee all over the floor?

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

I think I /did/ explain that. Now, if it was all over the /ceiling/...

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Rick
~~~~~
[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

I Can neither confirm nor deny that statement. The agency is only willing to conceede that I had a lot to drink last night...

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Big Nick, the Chainsaw Assassin
[i]Making Bad News Worse since 1980[/i]
[b]What... There's only ONE of you?[/b]

It would be a neat trick.... Take it to Vegas. I'm sure someone would pay to see that....

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Sir Henry

A Dragon in the disguise of a rabbit, is still a Dragon...

[img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img]

Yeah, that sounds like a /whole/ lot more fun than the showgirls.

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Rick
~~~~~
[email]rick@heavymetalpro.com[/email] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/flag-us.gif[/img] [img]http://www.heavymetalpro.com/countries/ ... rolina.gif[/img]

* There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. *

I'll take the showgirls anyday of the week....

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

Could be worse than pee on the floor.

A friend belatedly reminded me of Cinco de Mayo yesterday, so I ran out to the local gas station/convenience store to acquire some appropriate celebratory drinks.

(Side comment: all the quart-sized bottles of Corona beer had been pulled a week or two ago and the prices of Corona 6-packs jacked up a dollar in anticipation of Cinco de Mayo. If you wanted Corona from that store, you would be buying the $8.59+tax 6-packs, not the $1.79 quart bottles. Hah, I said. I just got 2 24oz Icehouses. I'd get blitzed on the cheap, if not with thematically appropriate beer.)

Anyway, beer drinking done, when I staggered into the master bathroom to initiate bedtime hygienical (sp) protocols, the beer interfered not with my aim (toothbrush did not intersect eye or ear), nor with my dexterity (flossed without losing a lip or finger), but there was a definite malfunction during the gargle-with-Listerine subroutine. (It wasn't the flavored blue pansy stuff, but the yellow, old school, turpentine & battery acid Listerine.)

I was able to salvage some data from the malfunction. For example, I learned that Listerine sprayed on a bathroom mirror by an evacuative lung reflex (coughing) makes a good substitute for Windex.

However, I'm not sure of the value of some of the data. Listerine in the sinuses produces unique sensations that must be experienced to be fully understood.

Sure, there's that cooling, evaporative sensation you get from mints, and the Listerine seems to initially do a reasonable job of dissolving dried mucus accumulations ("boogers"), so I do recommend staying over the sink or grabbing for a kleenex when the Listerine dribbles forth from your nose.

Though this seemed beneficial initially, within 10 minutes, my sinuses respond to the chemical intrusion by generating a fresh flood of protective mucus. I was completely plugged up by the time I hit the bed. My sinuses remain raw this morning.

The lesson: gargling with Listerine while drunk can lead to great pain and suffering.

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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

"Woo, that was bracing! They don't like it when you shoot at them. I worked that out myself." --Mal, Firefly

"Going bonkers from EI or DNI is pushing it. I mean how many Crusaders or Super Wobbies are sane to begin with...." --RockJock01

Sounds like fun.

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Je vous aurais bien aide, mais je ne vous aime pas.

Dr. J. Edgarlove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Inferno Gel

"If you're not careful, you'll get us all whacked. Ha ha! Body in a woodchipper." - Phil Ken Sebben

What is inside the silo? Can it fly? A needle in a haystack... To crack the sky!

I can't remember the last time I laughed quite so hard. It's funny, too, because I tried the original frightening flavor of listerine for the first time ever just ac ouple of days ago. Nothing quite so catastrophic as your story, though.

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--neko128

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"The cookie told me to!"
"Cookies aren't always right, you know."
"But they're so sweet!"

I shudder to think of how much that speeding ticket would be.

-Jackmc

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"Every problem is a nail. The key is finding the right type of hammer."

-PFC, David Hetzer 33rd I.A.C., 1st Davion Guards, on the art of strategy