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Hey guys,

I recently got in a discussion and ran into something that made me wonder. When was BattleTech created?

Do any of you know?

I'm trying to build a timeline here. And yes, for full disclosure, this does nail onto the Macross stuff.

The main thing I'm wondering is, when was BattleTech created? I've read before, from people who were the big wigs back in the day, that they were traveling to a toy show or something, I think in Japan, where they saw these really cool mecha, and wanted to make a western game for western fans using those designs. They secured the license, and made Battledroids (BattleTech) while using them.

When did they see these designs? When did they talk to Twenty Century Imports to get them? How long did it take them to design, publish, and release the game? Battledroids was released in 1984, but I don't know know WHEN in 1984. And I don't know how long it took to make it and put it into the production process. How long did it take to MAKE and publish a game back in the 1980s?

Here is a general timeline I've generated:

1980 - FASA created

October, 1982 - Macross aired in Japan

January 15, 1984 - Quote from US court case - "Tatsunoko granted plaintiff Harmony Gold U.S.A., Inc. ("Harmony Gold") a license to market all products in the United States based on the Macross designs except for Japanese plastic model kits."

Unknown date - Quote from US court case - "Harmony Gold subsequently acquired co-ownership of the copyrights in both the original Macross designs and any [*3] derivative works."

1984 - Battledroids (BattleTech 1st Edition) released

January 31, 1985 - FASA received a letter from Harmony Gold demanding they stop using the Macross designs

March 4, 1985 - Robotech aired in America

June, 1985 - BattleTech 2nd Edition released, with Macross designs

1992 - BattleTech 3rd Edition released, with Macross designs

1994 - BattleTech 3rd Edition re-released, with Macross designs

January 13, 1995 - Harmony Gold and Playmates filed suit with FASA and Virtual World Entertainment to stop using the Macross designs.

Unknown date - FASA agreed to stop using the Macross designs, and stopped using most other art generated out of house.

1999 - Harmony Gold asserted it had exclusive rights to the "distribution of the Macross television series and the right to create and authorize the sale of merchandise based on such series" outside Japan, and demanded that toy importers stop importing Macross toys.

2001 - Harmony Gold sued Toycom to stop them from selling new Macross Plus toys (as well as all things Macross)

2003 - Japanese courts ruled that Big West and Studio Nue have "Author Rights" (what we call intellectual property) to Macross and therefore own everything about the show, the characters, and the designs. Tatsunoko (and by extension Harmony Gold) was ruled to have "Maker's Rights" to the actual animation and the finished product of the Macross show (so they share in any money received on the show and toys in Japan), and international rights to distributing the series and merchandising it. They were ruled to have NO control over any derivative work of Macross such as later shows, comics, or toy lines based on them as Big West and Studio Nue own the IP.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

FASA had fan mail for Dishamony Gondu in '85?

I don't think I've ever heard if it was FASA saw some TCI product someplace, or the Revnell RoboTech line (the source of the name for Disharmony, IIRC), or what.

I believe the issue of Computer Gamin World covering 'MechWarrior 2 had the scoop.

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Considering the Battle of Stanrey and Kalnock came out before BattleDroids...excuse me...Battletech, the game has a tang of, shall we say, "inspired improvisation" rather than actual original invention. To my knowledge, FASA never had rights to either game. The games play somewhat similar, if the Dougram-versions seem simple by comparison. But there is no doubt where FASA got their...inspiration...from.

Both Stanrey and Kalnock used hex grids. And they came with actual 3d miniatures, a couple battle periscopes, and rather interesting stat cards considering today's games going that way. The trees were horrible, but at least you got trees.

You can see them every so often on Ebay going for stupid prices as archivists and collectors go head-to-head with abandon

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[size=85]To indeed be a god. [/size]

Hex grids were common at the time, and when Battledroids and BattleTech 2nd edition came out, they had cardboard pieces. It wasn't until 3rd edition that they had miniatures.

Well, Battledroids did have those two models in it, but they were not the right size to actually play on the hexes.

I don't know what the rules are for those two games, so I can't say how closely or not BattleTech compares to them.

I was more interested in knowing if anybody knew when the dudes at FASA saw the designs from Crusher Joe, Dougram, and Macross and got the rights to use them.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

also FASA already had several games out at that time that also used hex grids, namely the Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica based games and i beleive Combots as well

I have those games...they used hexes and the BSG game is still fun to play! I miss the older games and the time to play them.

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Karagin-

Darkness is a friend of mine. Sometimes I have to beat it back, or it would overwhelm me. Shirley Meier

[url]http://karagin12.livejournal.com/[/url]

The Wookiee, he's not wearing any pants!

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I was describing the Kalnock/Stanrey game, not that Battletech negatively borrowed the hex grid.

The rules of the games are not close, but play out pretty much the same as Battleforce - little overall flavor of anything. Fun to play if for no other reason than the goofy timewarp you have in playing them or as excuse to get the adorable Bigfoots and Soltics out there. Certainly though Battledroids/tech was borrowed a lot on the "look/style/whatever." If you want them I have them in pdf somewhere around here.

There is no specific date as to when they got any rights. The court case docs list out "on or about 1984" for when the game was created and sometime around there got the rights from TCI (who allegedly already had them from Tatsunoko with no specific data on when).

Given HG's clamouring and ability to show rights in action on 15 January 1984, it sounds like FASA got them after 15 January 1984. Otherwise, FASA could have argued prior claim and HG wouldn't have been able to do squat. But they got their rights from TCI, not Tatsunoko anyway so arguing a prior claim is hopeless. Nor could FASA argue promissory estoppel because HG (diligently apparently) kept firing off desists right from the start. 'Course, not like Playmates or HG are squeeky clean either.

I doubt Tatsunoko was in the habit of granting an alleged licensee like TCI any power for rights assignments (where FASA made their mistake in talking to TCI, not Tatsunoko). Of course, all of this is based off court documentation, but if FASA had some sort of proof showing action prior to 15 Jan 84, then I imagine they would have piped up with something concrete. The point is they didn't or couldn't; the some time after 15 January 84 is your timeframe I guess. Wisely FASA backed off rather than most assuredly lose. 'Course, IMHO, we are talking Illinois courts here...few of the courts in that state are what I would call fair, impartial, or skilled.

Still, while I think, imho, FASA et al. have a lot of bad habits in borrowing without checking and HG's issues are widely known, the fault really lies in the Byzantine-bizarre nature of animation studios in Japan and the wicked-strange nature of Japanese courts. Shrug.

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[size=85]To indeed be a god. [/size]

I don't KNOW what the timeframe is. That is why I'm asking if anybody KNOWS the timeframe.

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Medron Pryde - The Great and Terrible
[img]http://faileas.greywolf.googlepages.com/WOTD.png[/img]
[url=http://www.pryderockindustries.com]P.R.I.[/url] - The home of BattleTech programs and files
"I'm gonna Tea Party like its 1776." - Medron Pryde
Who is John Galt?

Tee hee hee

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[size=85]To indeed be a god. [/size]